What's a"Concour"?

Post by **sixdogs** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:52 pm

I've no wish to appear stupid, but I am desperate to find out what a "concour" is. I assume it's a French word, but it seems to be peculiar to classic cars as I have never come across the word in any other area. It's a bit like sporting terms, no one ever explains them, they all presume people are somehow born with the knowledge.

Can someone please enlighten me ?

Regards, Clive.

Post by **bigginger** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:51 pm

It's the fruit of a horse-chestnut tree. Sorry, no - concourse is a process of restoring your old car to as new condition, right down to the correct make of nuts and bolts and polishing the inside of the exhaust pipe (allegedly). The cars are judged by a group of chaps/esses who deduct points for every error or omission they can find. I'm sure there's lots more to it, but that's my understanding of it

Post by **guydenning** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:41 pm

bigginger wrote:It's the fruit of a horse-chestnut tree

just cuz you've baked your moggy overnight in the oven and soaked in vinegar - doesn't make it a lower insurance risk matey

concours is french for competition i fink...

i stand corrected, according to babelfish its french for contest

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 3:59 pm

You learn something new every etc etc, don't you?
a

Post by **sixdogs** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:16 pm

Thanks for the information. I had thought maybe the cars had to be completely original, with no renovation or welding etc having been carried out, but I realise now that this is incorrect.

Does this rule out added safety features such as flashing indicators, seat belts and radial tyres , not to mention heaters ?

Post by **Cam** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:52 pm

Does this rule out added safety features such as flashing indicators, seat belts and radial tyres , not to mention heaters ?

You get points deducted for non-original items.........

Post by **Alec** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:57 pm

Hello Sixdogs,
It is an abbreviation of Concours d'Elegance. These days such competions seem to look for a car absolutely correct in every way, spotlessly clean, all documentation correct , tool kit etc, but the finish generally is better than the manufacturers ever achieved, especially underbonnet. To say it is not my cup of tea is a strong understatement but you have to admire the efforts the 'Concours' brigade go to.

Alec

Post by **Judge** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:27 pm

Clive,
As far as the MMOC Concours is concerned, the general idea is to present a car in as near as possible the condition it was when it left the factory. This can be in restored or unrestored condition, in fact extra marks are awarded for originality.

Marks are awarded dependent on condition, attention to original detail etc, and cars can proceed through the various stages, depending on the marks awarded at each competion, finally attaining Grand Masters status.

It is accepted that some cars may be ' better than new ' but as for polishing the inside of the exhaust pipe, this can in fact result in marks being deducted, as can overpolishing and the polishing of components that were not originally so.

Marks are also deducted for non original items (with certain exclusions). However as far as radial tyres, seat belts, indicators, heaters etc are concerned, providing they were fitted as standard to the car concerned and are of the the original type, marks are not deducted.

I believe that is exactly this kind of judging criteria that stands the MMOC Concours as one of the most highly regarded within classic car circles.

Hopefully with this explanation, you can see that its not simply the ' shiniest car ' that wins, and that although Concours is not everybodies cup of tea, to someone who has this kind of interest and wants a bit of a challenge, it can be a lot of fun.

Bill.

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:48 pm

Judge wrote: but as for polishing the inside of the exhaust pipe, this can in fact result in marks being deducted.
Bill.

It was just a joke based on the hoary old cliche!

a

Post by **Judge** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 4:58 pm

Don't worry BG, I've been around long enough to know you only meant it as a joke.

Bill.

Post by **Alec** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:31 pm

Hello A and B,

I beieve that at Pebble Beach that marks are deducted for a dirty exhaust interior, but it is America.

Alec

Post by **samheath100** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:11 pm

Dont mean to upset anyone on here, but what I personally dont agree with in concourse is that people think that they have to pollish every nut and bolt on the car so it looks like a mirror, also they have to think they have to get all the nuts facing the right way. In my oppinion its all a load of rubbish as when the moggy came off the shop florr when it was new none of the nuts were polished they were just fitted and torqued up. And as for getting them all facing the right way. How can you possible torque a nut or bolt to its correct torque if you want them to face the same way? My car is still under restoration and I am going to be using it everyday so i am not going to bother getting it up to concourse condition.

Post by **Onne** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:33 pm

As judge said, they do indeed deduct points for those things. I think they'd rather see on as it left the factory.

Post by **chickenjohn** » Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:58 am

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the whole concours thing. Sam, I think that you don't really have to shine your nuts ;) in order to get a concours car, My understanding is that the aim is to get as near "factory fresh" and original as possible.

I'd quite like, one day to see if I could get a car to somewhere near concours standard, if only as a means of pushing my restoration skills further.

My Traveller is "usable sound condition 2" not so good that I'm afraid to use it! The next car I do I want to get to condition 1, some point after that it would be a challenging goal to get a car at least somewhere in the Concours ballpark.

Do they check the welding on the underside?? are mig weld runs acceptable or only factory original style spot welds allowed? Lots of questions!!